你們是在非法集會 This is an illegal gathering.
馬上解散 you must disperse immediately.
低頭 Stay down.
通過 Pass.
你為什么來索韋托? you're in Soweto. Why?.
因為我姐姐住在第三區 My sister lives in District Three.
車后面是什么? What's in the back?.
家俱 Furniture.
Wait.
好了，可以了 Okay, it's fine.
他當時正和自己的父親和姐姐搬運木料 He was out collecting wood with his father and his sister.
警察不知道從哪里冒了出來，把我們弄到橋上 The Police came out of nowhere and grabbed us and took us to the bridge.
他們把我父親裝進帆布袋子里 They took my dad and tied him in a canvas bag...
然后扔進河里 and dropped him into the river.
他們強迫我們觀看了整個過程 They made us watch him drown.
他們讓我們回家告訴別人說這就是參與南非國民大會的下場 They told us to go home and tell the others the price for being ANC.
有一個詞 We have a word...
叫作'烏邦圖' buntu'.
是指一個人的人性 It means a person's humanity...
是由他和別人的關系決定的 is measured according to their relationship with others.
我們告訴孩子們，那些犯下如此罪行的人們 We tell the children that these people, who commit these crimes...
已經喪失了他們的人性 have lost their humanity...
我們都是種族隔離的受害者 and are as much victims of Apartheid as we are.
他媽的他是誰? Who the hell is he?.
他是我的一個朋友，我可以為他擔保 He's a friend I can vouch for him.
他來自聯合金礦公司 是來幫忙的 He's here to help. He's from Consolidated Goldfields.
他來是要跟我們談辦學項目的投資事宜的 To talk about fund raising for our schools programme.
我們不指望他幫忙 We didn't ask for his hand-outs.
-別動他·離他遠點 -我是邁克、楊 - Leave him be!. Let him be!. - Michael young.
先生? Sir?.
滾，滾，滾 Go, go, go!.
-我是邁克·楊·-進展的怎么樣了? - It's Michael young. - What progress?.
對我們來說沒有效果·我們定位要更高 This isn't going to work for us. We need to aim higher.
山腳下會更安全 Safer to stay in the foothills.
我們看到的越多，就會更危險 The more visible, the more vulnerable we are.
是的，確實要安全一些·當然 yes, it's much safer. yes.
請安靜 A bit of hush.
我很榮幸的向大家介紹塔布·貝提先生 It is my pleasure to present Thabo Mbeki.
南非國民大會信息委員會主席 The African National Congress' Head of lnformation...
他此行是代表南非國民代表大會主席，奧利弗，塔布先生 who is here representing the ANC president, Oliver Tambo.
讓我們歡迎貝提先生的到來 I know that you'll make Mr Mbeki feel most welcome.
我是塔布，貝提· My name is Thabo Mbeki...
同時我還是一個恐怖分子 and I am a terrorist.
大家都這樣講，就毋庸置疑了 No doubt, that is what you have been told.
我沒有引爆裝置 No incendiary devices.
也沒有藏武器 No concealed weapons.
我只是和你們一樣，普普通通的一個人而已 I am just a man, as you are.
南非政府的總統 Every day the President of South Africa...
每一天都把自己的國民弄得神經兮兮 under the mantle of his State of Emergency...
他在各個城鎮上部署了成千的部隊 deploys thousands more of his troops in the townships...
對阻礙他隔離政策的人進行殘酷的打壓 brutally crushing the rising resistance to his oppressive regime.
然而，英國，仍舊是南非的頭號貿易伙伴 yet, the UK, is still one of South Africa's leading trading partners.
每一個公司 Every company...
每一個繼續在這里投資的金融機構‥ every financial institution which continues to invest there...
都是PW.博薩 政治實力和經濟實力的來源 is a source of political and economic strength to P.W. Botha.
如果說有錢能使鬼推磨，那么就讓他使勁推吧 If it is true that money talks, then let it speak, clearly.
當我們說我們的人民不應再流血的時候，請積極響應我們 Let your voice join ours when we say the bloodshed of our people must end.
對他們說不的時刻到了 The time to shout nough' has come.
你們行動的時刻到了 The time for you to act is here.
貝提先生 Mr Mbeki?.
我是邁克，楊 Michael young.
公共事務科經理，聯合金礦公司 Public Affairs Director, Consolidated Goldfields.
我們能做些什么呢？ Tell me how we can help.
這可不是一句話的事情，楊先生·這會讓你吃不消的 It's not an offer to make lightly, Mr young. We might take you up on it.
這確實很難 It wasn't made lightly.
就像你說的，貴國的生存對我們來說也不無稗益 As you say, we too have an incentive to ensure your country's survival.
我們反反覆覆地做著這個惡夢，楊先生 We have this recurring nightmare, Mr young...
有一天非洲政府會給我們信息 that one day the South African Government will send us a message...
暗示我們可以終止種族隔離 indicating that it is ready to talk to us about ending apartheid.
而由于我們的敵對和不信任，我們沒有聽到諸如此類的消息 Because of our antagonism and mistrust, we fail to hear the message.
我們也沒有回應 We fail to respond.
錯過了時機 We miss the moment.
Thank you.
那個人真的為礦業公司工作? An apparatchik working for a reactionary outfit like Goldfields?.
這事就這么簡單? Is that what it's come to?.
他說他為礦業公司工作，就意味著他背后有人 The fact that he works for Goldfields means he'll be listened to.
你還有更好的介入方法? you know a better entry card?.
如果說這家伙只是一個幌子呢? And if the Public Affairs thing is just a front?.
我懷疑他是軍情六處的 I doubt he's M l6.
我要談談 I need a word.
他在等你 He's expecting you.
進來吧 Come in.
我想我應該有解決問題的方法 I think I have a way forward on our problem.
我洗耳恭聽 I'm listening.
維安先生? Mr Vijoan?.
我是邁克、楊·我上周就會議事宜給您打過電話 It's Michael young. I called last week about the meetings...
我正試圖在南非國民大會和南非現任政府之間建立和關系 I'm trying to set up between the ANC and leading Afrikaners.
這太冒險了 The risk is too great.
我還有家小要考慮 I have a young family to think of.
請不要再給我打電話了 Please don't call me again.
只是探索性的會議 They're just exploratory meetings...
我們希望荷蘭改革教堂 and someone representing the Dutch Reform Church...
最好能扮演調和者的角色? who better to act as a mediator between the two sides?.
我們教堂從不涉足任何政治事件 It's not the policy of our church to involve ourselves in politics.
我幫不了你·很抱歉 I can't help you. I am sorry.
兩邊都有不愿意和談的強硬派 There are those on both sides who favour force over dialogue.
為了保密，我們最好·在英國舉行和談 To maintain secrecy, it's best if we hold the talks in the U. K.
在南非沒有秘密可言 In South Africa secrets are a way of life.
他們還有惹事生非的習慣 They also have a habit of exploding in your face.
我不能再被打擾了·抱歉 I can't be bothered. I'm sorry.
-能借用一下廁所么?-當然，就在后面 - Can I use your toilet?. - yeah, it's around the back.
愛的慣性把我們推向哲學的臂彎 Love has a habit of pushing us into the arms of philosophy.
一場地震可以奪走上千人的生命 An earthquake claims a thousand lives.
侵略者可以讓人家破人亡 Families bludgeoned to death by intruders.
甚至奪走最愛的孩子 The death of a much loved child.
這些事情無不驅使我們去責問慈愛的神靈，怎么會讓 Such events prompt us to ask how a benign deity can allow...
這樣的悲劇發生 such tragedies to happen.
哲學的任務就是使人從平淡混亂的生活中升華 The task of Philosophy is to rise above the futility and chaos of daily life...
去找尋更深層次的自我 to seek a deeper truth to our existence.
讓我來以帕斯卡的話來作為結語 I'll finish with the words of Pascal.
'若人類的尊嚴基于思索 f man's dignity lies in thought...
那就讓我們努力認真的去思索吧' then let us all strive to think well.'
再見 Good day.
注意了 Be warned!
那些沒有交國家與自由那份作業的同學 Those who have not yet handed in their assignment on Freedom and the State...
會失去自由的 will find their own freedom curtailed.
格魯伯先生，饒了我吧 Mr Gruber, make my day.
換個新的打印機色帶 Treat yourself to a new typewriter ribbon.
您就是楊先生吧? Mr young, I assume?.
你接手的是一個很大膽的任務 An audacious mission you've undertaken.
更確切的說，是一個不可能完成的任務 A mission impossible, might be more apt.
而你所請求的也是不可能的 What you are asking is impossible.
沒有哪個瘋子會把自己的生活，更不用說自己的生命 No sane man would put his livelihood, not to mention his life...
拿去做與虎謀皮的事情 on the line to break bread with the devil.
在這個國家，那些公開反對種族隔離的人 In this country, those who go public against Apartheid...
都被流放了 acquire the status of a pariah.
都被流放了
可是，你為什么還答應要和我見面呢? yet, you still agreed to meet with me?.
你說聯合礦業公司答應出資贊助這些會議? you say Consolidated Goldfields have agreed to fund these meetings?.
你們的老板是在自取滅亡 your founder would turn in his grave.
洛德斯明白政治力量失敗的地方，也是經濟力量復蘇的機會 Rhodes knew that market forces can succeed where politicians fail.
你們真是虛偽 you are being disingenuous.
你們只是想要保證自己在這里的投資而已，不是么? This is about your company protecting it's investments here, is it not?.
他們知道隔離不管從道德上還是經濟上都是說不過去的 They know apartheid is an anathema morally and economically.
他們已經實施很久了 They've colluded with it long enough.
而國家內部悄然醞釀著一場政變，這個己經眾所周知 It's an open secret that a silent coup has taken place in our country.
博薩不再詢問議會和內閣的意見 Botha no longer consults Parliament or the cabinet...
而是像一個中世紀的君主一樣進行統治 but rules in the manner of a medieval monarch.
他只聽自己安全顧問的話 Only his inner sanctum of security advisors have his ear.
而那些人就是掌管權利的人，而他們 It's they who wield the power, and they are not interested...
對于尋求政治問題的解決毫無興趣 in a political solution.
就像很多南非白人一樣，我覺得 Like most Afrikaners, I find...
南非國民大會的行事方式很讓人反感 the murderous methodology of the ANC morally repugnant...
即使想對他們好點都很困難 and the idea of cosying up to them is abhorrent...
-想就讓我作嘔 even the thought makes me retch.
很抱歉像要無功而返了 I'm sorry that you had a wasted journey.
我不是你要找的人 I am not the man for your mission.
Get on the move.
如果您沒有其他事宜的話，曼德拉先生 If you are not otherwise engaged, Mr Mandela...
司法部長邀請您喝茶 the Minister of Justice invites you to join him for tea.
據說這次吃的是黃瓜三明治 I'm told it's cucumber sandwiches this time.
好像還有其他訪害 It seems you have another visitor, too.
國家情報局的局長，是少不了的 The Head of National lntelligence, no less.
博納德博士在這里? Doctor Barnard is here?.
稍等一下，布蘭德先生 A moment if you please, Mr Brand.
重復，總部 Copy, control.
謝謝你 Thank you.
總部，確認主犯已經帶到 Control. Confirm subject's arrival.
克德西先生·很高興再次看到你 Mr Coatsee. Good to see you again.
我也是，曼德拉先生 Good to see you too, Mr Mandela.
內爾，博納德博士在這里，他是國家情報局的局長 Doctor Neil Barnard is here, Head of National lntelligence.
他請求參與我們的談話 He's asked to sit in on our discussions.
尼爾森、曼德拉先生·這是內爾，博納德博士 Mr Nelson Mandela. Doctor Neil Barnard.
我等這個機會已經很久了，博士先生 I've waited a long time for this opportunity, Doctor.
我也一樣，先生 Likewise, sir.
使用催淚瓦斯驅散人群 ... used tear gas to disperse the crowd...
被安全部隊的發言人稱為 in what a security forces spokesperson described as...
打擊暴力的必要措施 ecessary measures to contain the violence'.
而且，當 AWB 恐怖組織進行招募宣傳時 And, there were further arrests when Eugene Terre'Blanche's AWB party...
又進行了逮捕行動，四人被扣押 held a recruitment rally, four people were detained.
如果他們想要用武力和暴力掌管這個國家 If they want to take this country by force and violence...
那我們就直接用槍桿子對付他們 they'll meet us over the barrel of a gun.
A! W! B! A! W! B!
邁克·楊 Michael young.
我不能眼睜睜地看著我的國家走向覆滅 I cannot stand by and do nothing while my country is reduced to ashes.
我會參加你們的會議 I'll come to your meeting.
告訴我時間和地點 Let me know where and when.
博納德博士來了，總統先生 Doctor Barnard, Mr President.
-他上鉤了么?-否定了他的命運? - Did he take the bait?. - And deny his moment of destiny?.
-他覺得沒問題·-虛榮心啊·‥虛榮心 - He took it alright. - Vanity... vanity.
塔布正在等你 Tambo's waiting to see you.
奧利弗·也許這些和談正是我們期盼已久的機會 Oliver, maybe these talks are the opportunity we've been waiting for.
是的·但未必每個人都會喜歡 yes, but not everyone is going to like it.
很多人會把這當作反叛 Many will see this as a betrayal.
所以，只有你知我知，你要直接向我報告 So, we need to keep this between us, and report back only to me.
萬事小心，塔布 Be careful, Thabo.
我們決定參加 We're in.
做一些日常的記錄 Some housekeeping notes.
不要再電話聯系南非國民大會 No telephone communication with the ANC either...
不管是在盧薩卡還是在倫敦 in Lusaka or here in London.
南非安全局已經監聽了我們的電話·你的也是，到目前為止 South African lntelligence have our phones tapped. yours too, by now.
不要以為你回到倫敦就沒有后顧之憂了 Don't think because you're back in London you're not vulnerable.
汽車和信件炸彈是他們常用的武器 Car and letter bombs are the weapons of choice of the security agents.
歡迎來到我們的世界 Welcome to our world.
當我們跳到床上時床板不停的搖晃 The board get wind we're jumping into bed...
一群拿著AK步槍的恐怖分子 with a bunch of Kalashnikov carrying terrorists...
會計我們頭破血流·明白嗎? we'll both be out on our ears. you realise that?.
他們不能否認事實 They can't ignore reality.
博薩越是一天孤立，國家越是混亂 Every day Botha gets more isolated, the country more ungovernable.
若無援助，公司很快會衰落的 Something doesn't give, and soon the company will go down with it.
你覺得自已在這里面扮演的角色是什么? you see your role in this as what?.
建立一個中立的平臺然后站到旁邊 To create a neutral arena and step aside.
希望他們可以彼此平等對待，而非敵對姿態 Hope that they can see each other as men, rather than as enemies.
這個策略很冒險 A risky strategy.
其他更冒險 Others are risking more than that.
華麗的詞藻不會計股東們安心 Heroics don't cut much ice with shareholders.
只有 深入了解原則·但是，不能相信任何人 A eed to know' basis. Only. Trust no-one. Confide in no-one.
我會為這個策略的研究和開發買單，或者其他事項也可以 I'll bury the costs under Research and Development, or some such.
如果我有什么意外的話，這些是我個人資料 Arrangements for my personal affairs should anything happen to me.
-你覺得那有可能么?-有備無患 - you think that's likely?. - A precaution.
邁克? Michael?.
如果泄露出去了 If this ever gets out...
我會拒絕承認此事，否認你的存在 I shall have to deny all knowledge of it and, disown you.
同時，如果事情沒有成功，我什么也得不到 And, I'll be nothing, if not convincing.
護照帶了沒有?機票呢? Passport?. Ticket?.
坐出租車走 Taxi.
It's okay.
教授 Professor.
來得正是時候吧 In the nick of time.
我能進來嗎? May I come in?.
對外，博薩依然會堅持原有路線 In public, Botha's still holding the party line...
就是必須先打敗恐怖分子然后再和談 that you must defeat terrorists before you can negotiate with them.
而對內·他希望你能盡可能長的延續這個會議 Privately, he wants you to continue the dialogue for as long as possible.
我們對南非國民大會的機構弱點了解得更多 The more we know about the ANC's fault lines in their power structure...
我們就能更充分地準備掌控這場游戲的結果 the better we are equipped to control the end game.
這么說來，我要去當你們的間諜了? So, I am to act as your spy?.
你要做的不只是一個線人 A go between is more what we had in mind.
你有沒有想過為什么要讓你去帶動和談，教授先生? Have you thought why you were chosen to lead these talks, Professor?.
因為你是一個軟目標 you're a soft target.
他們覺得你主張公平的名聲· They think your reputation as an advocate for social justice...
可以給他們加入的機會 gives them a way in.
參與合作 Play along.
貝提肯定會認為你只是一個 Mbeki must think you are just a...
調查團里面一個受尊敬的學者而已 respected academic on a fact-finding mission.
軟目標可不是一個軟柿子，博士 A soft target is not a soft touch, Doctor.
我去參加這個會議是去傾聽他們的想法 I'm going to that meeting to hear what they have to say.
同等重要的是，我還有自己的想法 As importantly for them to hear what I have to say.
不然整個會議就是徒勞 The whole process is futile otherwise.
對，可是事實是，你也知道，教授 Ja, but the thing is, you see, Professor.
你如果不合作的話 you don't co-operate...
你就無法參與這個活動 your participation in the process will be terminated.
我的直線電話·打結我 My direct line. Call me.
你從現在開始要小心炸彈了 you need to be vigilant about incendiary devices now.
開車之前要檢查一下 Always check under your car before using it.
我會派人過來做給你看 I'll send my people over to show you how.
你的票? And your ticket?.
不要忘了給阿爾比、塞池打電話 Don't forget to ring Albi Sachs.
你好? Hello?.
我是塔布，貝提·我有話要說 This is Thabo Mbeki. I need a quick word.
他剛出發去機場了·我去攔住他，等等 He's just left for the airport. I'll try and catch him, hold on.
阿爾比 Albi!
-換條線·-請接另外一條線 - Get another line. - Another line, please!
對全體人員進行背景考核·他們不知道安全問題很重要嗎？ Background checks on staff. And they know that security is an issue?.
我今早簡要的給他們講了 I briefed them this morning.
每天早晨都要給他們強調·要有自我防范意識 Brief them every morning. Just keep hammering it home.
-這個是蒙貝提先生的房間 -是, 貝提先生 - This is Mr Mambenki's room. - Mbeki.
-所有的房間都是套間·-很好 - All the rooms are ensuite. - It's nice.
-那么，隔壁呢?-他的同事，那個·帕哈德先生 - And, next door?. - His colleague. Mr... Pahad.
把愛斯特海澤教授安排到貝提隔壁 Put Professor Esterhuyse next to Mbeki.
我們需要把把們混在一起·使他們見面的幾率最大 We need to mix them up. Maximise the opportunity for chance meetings.
-沒錯·-很好·謝謝你 - Right. - Good. Thank you.
歡迎這個詞現在己經不足以表達我們的感受 elcome' seems a meagre word for such an occasion.
但是，誠意絲毫不會少，一如既往 But, it is no less sincere, all the same.
現在，您看到我草擬的議程上 Now, as you can see from the agenda I drew up...
我們有很多方面需要討論 we have a lot of ground to cover.
因此，如果我們能達成一致，我認為必須 So, if we're to get through it I think it is essential that...
恕我直言，楊先生 With respect, Mr young.
因為您不是南非人，所以這不是您的議程 Since you are not South African, it's not your agenda.
而是我們的 It's ours.
不過，恕我直言，貝提先生 And, with respect, Mr Mbeki...
我必須提醒您這個議程是雙發預先都同意的 I must remind you that the agenda was agreed by both sides in advance.
第一條·南非國民大會遠景 Item one. The ANC perspective.
我們知道你們南非白人曾為你們的國家付出過血的代價 We know that you Afrikaners have paid in blood for your country.
就像我們一樣 As, we have.
我們也知道·是出于你們一手策劃 We know too, that it was from your suffering...
一個種族隔離制度正在孕育而生 that a system of apartheid was incubated.
這樣做通常是為了生存 The need to dominate is often a consequence of survival.
我們的問題是，作為流放者，我們 Our problem is, as exiles, we are...
被孤立在政壇之外 outside the political system.
因此，我們不打算在任何和政府的談判中 So, we are not in a position to offer any concessions or compromises...
作任何的妥協和讓步 in any potential negotiations with the government.
如果您不能讓步，那您能做什么? If you can't offer concessions, what can you offer?.
我們唯一能做的就是一-列舉我們的要求 All we can do is set out our stall of demands.
釋放尼爾森，曼德拉還有所有的政治罪犯 The release of Nelson Mandela and all political prisoners.
允許一切不受法律保護的政治組織存在 The unbanning of all proscribed political organisations.
只有那樣才能協商出能讓大多數人滿意的過渡計劃 Only then can a negotiated transition to majority rule take place.
這樣的話，那么，我們是不是可以認為 So, then, we can take it that there is no truth in the rumour...
關于南非國民大會希望曼德拉死于獄中的傳言純屬謠言 that the ANC hopes Mandela will die in prison?.
這樣的話他就成為烈士了 Thus elevating him to the status of martyr.
您不認為他已經是烈士嗎? you don't think he's achieved that status already?.
那個傳言，關于我們的大多數信息 That rumour, along with most information about us...
都是不可信的 is based on disinformation.
也包括如果釋放他而造成的騷亂流血事件嗎？ And, the riots and bloodshed if he does get released?.
您能確保控制好那些激進的游擊隊員嗎? Can you guarantee you can control your guerrilla extremists?.
從控制好曼德拉太太和她項鏈火刑開始 Controlling Mrs Mandela and her necklacing would be a start.
只要您能控制好您那些野蠻的治安警衛 As would controlling the brutality of your security police.
您能確保這個嗎? Can you guarantee that?.
在普麗托利雅(南非首都)有人說博薩正在考慮 There's talk in Pretoria that Botha is considering...
建立一個新的組織合并到議會 forming a new body to be affiliated to Parliament...
這個組織里黑人能和有色人種還有印度人一起作為代表 where black representatives can join the coloured and lndian delegates...
作為勢力瓜分的先奏 as a prelude to power sharing.
我們能問問您對于這個提議的看法嗎? Can we ask your opinion on such a proposal?.
您的看法? What is yours?.
我來僅僅是為了了解真相，貝提先生 I'm just here on a fact-finding mission, Mr Mbeki.
您的意見才是問題關鍵 your opinion is the issue.
我的理解是我們不是來這討論改革種族隔離制度的 My understanding is we are not here to discuss reforming Apartheid.
或者 把它隱藏在一個新的政治格局里 Or, disguising it under some new administrative structure.
我們此行是想徹底廢除它 We're here to talk about how to abolish it.
我們共同尋求的是，一個能讓大多數人滿意的條款 What we are seeking, is a prelude to majority rule.
勢力瓜分，提都不要提 Power sharing, is not an option.
啊，教授 Ah, Professor.
行了·很好，很好·先生們，先停一下，很好 Okay. Good, good. Gentlemen, please. Good.
也許你們該列出一些 Perhaps, if you outline the specific nature of your fears...
大眾條款中你們自己的顧慮 relating to majority rule.
這可不是為科學獻身 It's not bloody rocket science.
黑人會踩著我們血跡而過 The blacks come after our blood,
我們的孩子們會被扼殺在搖籃中·這，就是現實 and our children get slaughtered in their beds. That, is the reality.
一個傾向子共產主義的組織會讓我們的經濟陷入混亂 A communist leaning administration will destroy our economic stability.
他們最終會計這里再度如殖民地般混亂 They'll end up in the same post colonial chaos...
就像非洲其他地區一樣 as the other African states.
教授? Professor?.
你們不僅會抹去我們的語言和文化，還會剝奪我們的人身 you'll obliterate not only our language and our culture, but our human rights.
讓人害怕是壓迫者的首選武器 Fear is the first weapon of the oppressor.
它讓我們完全看不到其他人的人性所在 It blinds us all from seeing the humanity of the other.
您也不是兩袖清風，貝提先生 your hands are not so clean either, Mr Mbeki.
您的恐怖活動不是基于害怕是基于什么? What is your campaign of terror based on if not fear?.
害怕的氛圍不是我們營造的，教授 The culture of fear is not of our making, Professor.
我們只不過從主人那里學了一點皮毛 We learnt it at the feet of our masters.
您看起來很案了，曼德拉先生·我們又聊到這么晚 you're looking tired, Mr Mandela. We've kept you talking too late again.
還好，我今晚沒其他計劃 Fortunately, I had no other plans tonight.
期待我們的下次交談，博士 I look forward to our next conversation, Doctor.
曾有一刻我覺得您在說，協商 For a moment I thought you said, egotiation'.
我耳朵有點幻聽了 My ear's playing tricks on me.
晚安，博士 Good night, Doctor.
-克德西先生·-晚安 - Mr. Coatsee. - Good night.
掐斷他和其他所有羅本島人(南非沿海島嶼)的聯絡 Stop all contact with the other Robben lslanders.
我不希望他們嘰嘰喳喳影響到他 We don't need their Greek Chorus in his ear.
好的 Alright.
下次給他套正式點的衣服穿 And get him a suit for next time.
如果他覺得和我們平等，就會告訴我們更多 We'll get more out of him if he thinks he's an equal.
好的·好主意 Okay. It's a good idea.
這里先交給你了 I'll leave you to it.
我是想我們的時間精力不用都耗在一個流放的總統身上 I just think things might free up a bit without an outsider present.
厭煩與我們在一起了? Bored with us already?.
多么高明的回避 It's a tactical withdrawal.
So, Professor.
您第一次看到我的時候，是不是在想 When you first saw me, did you think...
啊，這就是該死的，共產主義恐怖分子的樣子？ h, so that's what a fucking, communist terrorist looks like'?.
那么，您呢?您是不是在想 And, you?. Did you think...
啊，這就是該死的，種族歧視的波爾人的樣子？ h, so that's what a fucking racist Boer looks like'?.
毫無疑問，你們認為我們聲稱不搞種族分化 No doubt, you assume our claim to be non-racial...
只是為了政治上的方便 編造的一些冠冕彈簧的說辭 但你們錯了 is just a rhetoric of political convenience, but you are mistaken.
這是我們的生存之本 It's what defines us.
您也把我們想錯了，貝提先生 And you are mistaken in your assumptions about us, Mr Mbeki.
我們的恐懼不是源于一些你們的恐怖宣言 Our fear doesn't stem from propaganda...
而是源于扎根在內心深處的聲音，顯示著總有一天 but from the deep rooted knowledge that one day we will be punished...
我們會因犯下的重大錯誤而受到懲罰 for all the terrible wrongs we have inflicted.
晚安，教授 Good night, Professor.
晚安 Goodnight.
誰? Hello?.
教授? Professor?.
有什么需要? Can I help you?.
楊先生跟我保證過這片區域沒有攝像頭 young gave his assurance the place was clean of bugs.
我可不敢冒險 I couldn't take the chance.
上帝保佑，我不會后悔這樣做 I hope to God, you don't make me regret what I'm about to do.
博薩對新聞界和議會都宣稱 To the press and parliament, Botha's still on message that...
在他跟你談話前你必須解除所有武裝 you must abandon your weapons before he'll conduct a dialogue with you.
但是，現在我建議你別那樣 But, my presence here suggests otherwise.
博薩知道我們的談話嗎? Botha knows about these talks?.
我本來是要通過國家情報局的博納德博士 I'm instructed to report back to him via Doctor Barnard...
向他匯報的 in National lntelligence.
我就要成為他們的特洛伊木馬了 I'm to be their Trojan horse.
您在冒很大風險跟我說這些，教授 you take a risk telling me this, Professor.
不跟你說才是在冒險 It would be a risk not telling you.
互相信任，才能成事 Without trust, we'll achieve nothing.
塔布說過，如果我們 Tambo says if we are to...
要贏回自由，我們必須首先 win our freedom we must first...
放下怨恨 banish bitterness.
現在就是考驗這句話的時候了 This will be the test of it.
對我們大家 For all of us.
讓他準備好 Get him ready.
讓他體昧一下失去很久的東西 Let's give him a taste of what he's been missing.
轉過來一下 If you could just turn around.
-好的·還行吧?-是啊 - Okay. It's good?. - Ja.
這么多年我都忘記該怎么系鞋帶了 I've lost the knack of tying them over the years.
行了，我們出發? Well, shall we?.
我來接·我來接 Got it. I've got it.
博納德 Barnard.
他對自由的一天還滿意吧? Did he enjoy his day of freedom?.
體味一下而言應該足夠，但愿吧 Enough to get a taste for it, let's hope.
-英國那邊怎么說?-進展中 - And the UK talks?. - Work in progress.
這些還不足以讓我撫慰內閣中的嗜殺分子 I need more than that to placate the bloody doves in Cabinet.
長官，這件事千萬不能讓內閣知道 Sir, the Cabinet must know absolutely nothing about this.
如果有人向美國有線新聞網松口 那我們整個計劃就功虧一簣了 If some loose lips blabs to CNN the whole process could implode on us.
是你透露了這些談話的內容才混進南非國民大會 you sold me these talks to get the inside track on the ANC.
以方便我們控制曼德拉 To give us leverage over Mandela.
如果你沒打算匯報這些·那還他媽有什么意義? If you're not going to deliver. What's the damn point?.
我確實在這見過他的原話 I have his exact words here somewhere.
讓我們單獨聊會 Leave us.
我得回家了，博士 I do have a home to go to, Doctor.
或許你認為我受騙了或是太天真，但我還得說 At the risk of invoking more accusations that I'm gullible and naive, I repeat...
在我看來，貝提，政府是能和他談判的 In my view, Mbeki, is a man the government can do business with.
你這是基于什么觀點? A view based on what?.
火爐邊的調侃? your cosy fireside chats?.
他把政治選舉搞得烏煙瘴氣? His existential ramblings about universal suffrage?.
一個人可以尊重別人對理想的承諾 One can respect a man's commitment to his ideals...
只不過他沒有與人分享他是如何受到尊重的 without sharing his methods of achieving them.
原諒我，為我沒有在他的獨裁政府前下跪 Forgive me, if I don't also genuflect at his altar of self government.
談話很容易，教授 Talk is cheap, Professor.
他沒讓步，是吧 一點也沒有 He made no concessions, did he?. Not one.
他在談話中表現的溫和完全是在耍手段，與塔布遙相呼應 His so called conversion to moderation is a ploy, orchestrated by Tambo.
而你 And you...
你買他的賬 you fell for it.
-我可以回家了嗎? -還不行 - Can I go home?. - Not yet.
曼德拉讓他的律師傳話給我了 Mandela sent his lawyer with a message for me.
他們把他和西斯魯還有其他羅本島人隔離了 They've isolated him from Sisulu and the other Robben lslanders.
他一直在和國家情報局的博納德博士秘密會談 He's been holding secret talks with Doctor Barnard from the N. I.S....
那人是直接向博薩報告的 who reports back to Botha.
我一再逼問必索斯他才告訴我會議的內容 I pressed Bizoz on the content of the meetings.
他聲稱尼爾森什么也沒交代 He claims Nelson said nothing.
他極力說服我他的所為是出于好意 He wanted to assure me he's acting in good faith.
他正在走進一個陷耕 He's walking into a trap.
博薩知道英國的談話 Botha knows about the U. K. talks.
伯納德招募了愛斯特海澤當他的線人 Barnard recruited Esterhuyse to act as his informer.
他們在玩分而治之 的把戲 They're playing ivide and rule' with us.
朋托亞會聲稱南非最有知各度的犯人 Pretoria will claim that South Africa's most famous prisoner...
想要和平地解決問題，但是南非國民大會的恐怖分子 wanted a peaceful settlement but the ANC terrorists...
為了堅持他們的暴力的信仰拒絕了 rejected it to pursue their doctrine of violence.
蒙迪巴不可能這么容易上當的 Madiba would never fall for such a trick.
我們怎么知道他是怎么想的? How do we know what his mental state is?.
我們怎么知道他的壓力有多大? The pressure he's under?.
為了他的自由他會做出什么讓步? What concessions he'll make in return for his freedom?.
如果他忠于我們為什么不告訴我們他的行動計劃? If he's so solid with us why not tell us what he's doing?.
為什么把你和我們其他人排斥在外 Why exclude you, of all people.
這個叫里斯特海澤的，能信任嗎? This Esterhuyse, do you trust him?.
一個你認識不過幾小時的人? yes.
A man you've barely known a few hours?.
而我卻要懷疑一個跟了我一輩子的人 yet, I'm supposed to doubt a man I've known a lifetime.
即使這個人為我們犧牲過一切 Who sacrificed everything for us.
如果信任是問題關鍵 If trust is the issue...
那可能該懷疑我的判斷力 perhaps it is my judgement which is in doubt.
如果我們讓自己陷入互不信任 If we let ourselves be tainted by distrust...
博薩的詭計就會得逞·我們正中下懷 Botha's tactics will succeed. We play into his hands.
距離博薩總統告訴議會有安全漏洞還不到之24小時 The bombing came less than 24 hours after President Botha told parliament...
爆炸就發生了 that security forces had uncovered a terrorist cell in Natal...
還抓到了23 個嫌犯 and arrested 23 suspected insurgents.
我們了解到兩個恐怖分子跑掉了 We understand that two of the terrorists evaded capture.
安全部門正在斯瓦特區域極力搜捕 Security Forces have stepped up their search in the Soweto area.
進來 Get in here.
我回來啦，馬瑞·有人在家嗎? I'm home, Marie. Anyone home?.
目標確認·明晚12 點 Target is confirmed. Tomorrow at twelve p. m.
好的 Sure.
今天南非發生了流血事件 And the bloodshed in South Africa today...
在魯德堡德，約翰內斯堡附近 after a bomb exploded outside a shopping centre...
一個商場外面發生爆炸 in Roodeport, near Johannesburg.
4 名市民喪生，還有18 名受傷 Four civilians were killed and 1 8 others injured.
發言人聲稱目標是附近的一家銀行 A spokesman claimed that the target was a nearby bank.
但他拒絕透露爆炸案一再發生的原因 He declined to give details on the operational difficulties...
他們的行動有什么難點 which caused the explosion.
你就這樣為你那蠻不講理的爆炸 Is that how you justify your campaign of indiscriminate bombings...
還有對無辜群眾迫害辯解? the killing of innocent civilians?.
我們絕沒想殺害群眾 We have never supported the killing of civilians.
還有那些被你的水雷和炸彈殘害和殺戮的婦女孩子 Tell that to the women and children that you maim and kill...
以及他們的親人 with your limpet bombs and your pipe bombs.
那就說說這些吧 Or are dead children legitimate collateral damage...
為了加快你的恐怖主義步伐? to promote your cycle of terror?.
我能給你提供死去孩子的所有信息，教授 I can quote you chapter and verse on dead children, Professor.
姓名·年齡還有生日包括我的兒子 Names, ages and dates, my son included.
先生們，該休息了 I think a break is in order, gentlemen.
南非國民大會的一貫政策是 ANC policy is, and always has been...
只有軍方和經濟·要害才是合法目標 that only military and economic targets are legitimate.
如果這里所見所聞都這么荒謬 If it smells like crap and it sounds like crap...
那我們達成一致的機會·是零 chances are, it is crap.
我不止一次 Not once have I tried to justify...
試著為南非保安部隊的荒謬行徑辯護 the excesses of the South African Security Forces.
然而，你們卻執意用這些裝腔作勢的教條糊弄我 yet, you persist in spouting this pre-digested dogma at me.
可能他們認為說的次數足夠多，我們就買賬了 Maybe they think if they say it enough times, we'll buy it.
確實進展不大，那么我們要么繼續 · This really is not productive, so either we move on....
魯德堡德爆炸案的發生絕不是偶然 The timing, of the Roodeport bomb isn't coincidental.
魯薩卡授權的 Lusaka authorised it...
在了解我們會議所有進展的情況下 in the full knowledge of our meetings.
很老套的恐怖主義把戲 It's the old terror tactic...
一旦談判開始，就會上演 once the talking starts, step up the violence.
如果你認為那會讓你 If you think that's going to strengthen your hand...
在和政府談判時更有勝算 in any negotiations with the Government...
那你只能見證我們談判以失敗告終 you've seen to it that all chance of that is off the table.
恕我直言 Frankly...
談判到此為止 so are these talks.
-是時候加點火候了·-沒問題 - Time to turn up the heat. - Alright.
你好啊，曼德拉先生·請坐 Hello, Mr Mandela. Please.
我們來談談魯德堡德的事吧 Let's talk about Roodeport.
不用說 It needed saying.
我們根本沒說服他們 There was no getting round it.
也許吧 Perhaps.
但是，把一個逼太急的話 But, box a man into a corner and...
總統快沒耐心了，曼德拉先生 The President is running out of patience, Mr Mandela.
要么，你公開告發共產黨和南非國民大會勾結 Either, you denounce the communist links with the ANC...
譴責暴力 condemn the violence....
要么，恕我直言，我跟你?無話可說了 or, frankly, you and l?. We have nothing further to discuss.
黨政治運動被迫轉為地下行動之時 When political movements are forced underground...
他們已經不可避免地就走到一起了 they inevitably are thrown together...
還有，沒人會向共同的敵人屈服 and, no man of honour would desert a lifelong friend...
而放棄一個永久的伙伴 at the request of a common enemy.
先生們，讓我們單獨待會 Gentlemen, excuse us.
不是只有你會玩這種把戲，曼德拉先生 you're not the only game in town, Mr Mandela.
你還不明白嗎? Don't you see?.
這是你重回初衷的好機會 This is your chance to seize the initiative.
南非國民大會認為發動恐怖襲擊會增強他們的實力 The ANC think they can bomb their way into power...
但你只要說幾句話，譴責他們的暴力 but a few words from you, condemning the violence...
就不僅能讓你自己重獲自由 will not only secure your freedom...
還能確保 but will ensure that you alone...
你能和政府談判的唯一人選 will be the man the Government deals with.
你，也只有你，能帶我們走出這個僵局 you, alone, can lead us all out of this impasse.
你這么多年的犧牲連這點權利都不能帶給你嗎? Haven't your years of sacrifice earned you that right?.
情況就是這樣 This is the situation.
所有南非國民大會發起的爆炸案 All ANC bombing operations...
都是在魯薩卡政壇一手操控下進行的 fall under the command and control structure in Lusaka.
但是，有一些干部，認為暴力是唯一的方法 But, some of our cadres, believing force to be the only way...
有時候會擅自行動 sometimes act without authority.
這樣行動會被扭曲 Operations can get bungled.
無辜的民眾 Innocent people...
慘遭殺害 get killed.
但是，我說過 But, you have my word...
我會盡一切所能 that I will do everything in my power...
保證平民不再因我們彼此缺乏信任而受到牽連 to ensure that civilians no longer suffer from our inadequacies.
你是在說你控制不了你們叛軍隊伍中的 Are you telling us that you are unable to control some of your...
一些人是嗎，貝提先生? renegade cadres, Mr Mbeki?.
教授，如果你了解我們真正的處境的話 If you know the truth of our situation, Professor...
你會看到暴力問題- you will see that the issue of violence...
跟我們正努力解決的其他難題是聯系在一起的，這無法改變 is irrevocably connected to the other issues we wrestle with.
只有我們進入真正的民主進程 Only when we can participate in a truly democratic process...
我們的武裝斗爭才會成為過去 will our armed struggle become obsolete.
只有到那個時候，我們之間的沖突才會劃上句點 Only then will the conflict between us end.
-你睡得怎樣? -不錯，你呢? - How did you sleep?. - Not too bad. you?.
很好，除了做了幾個跟律師有關的惡夢 Alright, except for terrible dreams about lawyers.
哦，沒錯·那是惡夢 Oh, yes. That is a nightmare.
嗯，無論如何，撒切爾夫人現在在莫斯科 So, anyway, Thatcher is in Moscow...
紅場上的群眾都在她四周，將她團團圍住 the crowds in Red Square are all over her, mobbing her...
那些稱贊全都開始讓她覺得忐忑不安 She's getting quite queasy with all this adulation...
因此，她對她的翻譯人員說，'我不是共產黨，你知道嗎?" so, she says to her interpreter, 'm not a communist, you know?. '
然而，他們吼著回答說，'我們也不是' And, they shout back, either are we!'
我來這兒本是相信魯德堡德發生的事情己經打亂了一切 I came here believing what happened at Roodeport had derailed everything...
你改變了那種想法 you changed that.
你在房間說的話不會傳到別人耳朵里 What you said in that room will go no further.
-祝你一路順風，維利 -我能對你說嗎 - Safe home, Willie. - May I tell you....
你兒子的事情 我深感遺憾 how truly sorry I am about your son.
Thank you.
塔布? Thabo?.
離開這條路 Come off the road.
去機場的路有事故發生 There was an incident on the way from the airport.
他們不是安全人員 They were not security agents.
你們會談的消息已經泄露了 Word is out about your talks.
一些好戰分子將不擇手段來阻止他們 Some of the militants will use any tactics to halt them.
20 年來我們說只有武力才能制服敵人 For two decades we've said only force will crush the enemy.
然而現在我們不是付諸于武力，反而倡導和談 Instead of force, we now preach talks.
他們把這視作背叛 They see that as a betrayal.
你在暴力問題上敦促他的時候 And when you pressed him on the violence issue...
有承認現在攻擊平民有得到南非國民大會最高指揮部的認可嗎？ did he admit the ANC high command now sanction civilian targets?.
他跟起初說的一樣 He made the same point he has made from the beginning...
停止暴力襲擊 cessation of violence...
取決于政府是否承諾推行民主進程 is contingent on the Government committing to a democratic process.
我告訴也不停止暴力，無可能性而言? you told him there can be no question of that while the violence continues?.
告訴我，博士，要是他們同意 Tell me, Doctor, should they agree to...
放棄武裝斗爭跟政府進行談判 give up the armed struggle and negotiate with the government...
你會給他們什么作為回報? what would you give them in return?.
你要是不拿些方案到桌上是沒法進行談判的 you cannot go into negotiation without bringing something to the table.
但你卻把我兩手空空地派去 yet you send me in empty handed.
我要是空手而歸，那就不要感到驚訝 Don't be surprised if I come back empty handed.
你沒有權進行談判，教授 you are not empowered to negotiate, Professor.
你錯了·博士·談話并不容易 you're wrong. Doctor. Talk is not cheap.
我們剩下的就只有這些 It's all we have left.
愛斯特海澤先生的觀點是 Mr Esterhuyse takes the view that...
在正式談判開始前 before formal negotiations can take place...
雙方都必須做出讓步 concessions, must be made on both sides.
如果我們示意釋放曼德拉 If we make a gesture by releasing Mandela...
我說過作出妥協釋放曼德拉沒的談 I said nothing about making concessions to Mandela's freedom.
這再也不是政治存續的問題了，長官 This is no longer a matter of political survival, sir.
你為我們爭取時間的政策己經制造了一個 your policy of buying us time has created a...
一個不確定的真空狀態，這只會助長暴力事件 a vacuum of uncertainty that is only fuelling the violence.
你知道我在想什么嗎? you know what I think?.
這是關于你自身存亡的問題，遮住你可憐的屁股 This is about your own survival, covering your own sorry arse.
如果是你主動跟南非國民大會進行接洽 · If you are seen to take the initiative with the ANC...
邢么你會名垂青史·你就是那個擁有卓越的政治才能和眼光 history will always acknowledge it was you who had the statesmanship...
將這個國家從中戰的邊緣拯救回來的偉人 and vision to pull this country back, from the brink of civil war.
就憑你一個人就避免了一場災禍 you alone averted that catastrophe.
歷史也可能會說我見風使舵得太快了 History might also say I took my hand off the tiller too soon.
-我現在放曼德拉自由·就放棄了我們的王牌 I give way on Mandela's freedom now, I give away our trump card.
他跟其他人一樣 He's a man like any other.
得到的越多，要的就越多 The more he gets of it, the more he'll want it.
曼德拉是關鍵所在 Mandela is the key.
-今天去哪里?-給你一個驚喜 - Where to today?. - A surprise.
控制塔，確認目標到達 Control, confirm subject arrival.
一切順利，沒有問題 Everything is alright, no problems.
我希望你會喜歡你的新宿舍，曼德拉先生? I hope you like your new quarters, Mr Mandela?.
這是斯沃特準尉 This is Warrant Officer Swart.
他會照顧你的·為你做飯，干其他活 He'll look after you. Do your cooking and so on.
我們之前在羅賓島見過 We've met before, at Robben lsland.
我以前經常載你去采石場 I used to drive you to the quarry.
我希望你做廚師比做司機更出色 I hope you are a better cook than you were a driver.
帶他去參觀一圈·我會把你安頓下來的 Give him the tour. I'll leave you to settle in.
這有 3 間臥室·這是最大的一間 There's three bedrooms. This is the largest.
我確信你會覺得這張床比你睡慣了的那張更舒服 I'm sure you'll find the bed more comfortable than you're used to.
會議推遲了教授 The departmental conference is postponed, professor.
我們都很清楚英國現在發生了什么 We know exactly what's going on in the UK...
就是你和那個南非國民大會暴徒教授之間的事 between you and the ANC thugs professor.
下次行動之前仔細考慮清楚或者學會怎么睜著眼睡覺 Think carefully before going next time or learn to sleep with your eyes open.
我是邁克、楊·請留下口訊 This is Michael young. Please leave a message.
我是愛斯特海澤 This is Esterhuyse.
我建議 I suggest...
你盡可能快地確定下次會議的時間 that you make a date for the next meeting as soon as possible.
-我想你 -很高興看見你回來 - I missed you. - It's nice to see you back.
有金蘭花·還有三色紫羅蘭 Marigolds. Pansies.
這棵種錯地方丁·它需要更多陽光 This one is in the wrong place. It needs more light.
你挑個地方·我去拿鏟子 you pick a spot. I'll fetch a shovel.
總統先生? Mr President?.
總統先生，你還好吧? Mr President, are you alright?.
快叫救護車 We need an ambulance now.
嘿，嘿，好捧哦 Hip, hip, hooray!
拜拜，塔塔 Bye bye, Tata.
我親愛的朋友 My dear friend.
以最樂觀的方面來看 博薩以為可以用表面堂皇的牢籠來誘使我投降 At best, Botha regarded my gilded cage as a way to seduce me into submission.
但是我花了20 年時間來為這一刻作準備 But I have had twenty years to prepare me for this moment.
跟博納德談判是個高風險的策略 Talking to Barnard was a high risk strategy...
但是你可以相信一件事 but you can trust in one thing.
除了促進民主進程以使南非國民大會獲得民主權利以外 That I am not negotiating terms with the government...
我是不會和政府進行談判的 but facilitating the process for the ANC to do so.
很明顯，你和我遠非他們現在能離間的 Surely, you and I have come too far to let them divide us now.
新任總統廠FW, 德.克里克的選舉 The election of the new State President F. W. De Klerk...
已經在全國范圍內引發了一波暴力襲擊 has sparked a wave of violence across the country.
他承諾進行改革很具敏感性 And sensitivity about his commitment to reform...
這似乎正在助長暴力行為 seems to be fuelling the violence.
德，克里克先生在民族黨的權利問題上所持的立場 Mr De Klerk's position to the right of the National Party...
已經讓一些觀察者質疑他力求改變的野心 have left some observers to question his appetite for change.
博薩的錯誤在于他過于依賴安全機構 Botha's mistake was his reliance on his security apparatus...
而沒有保護他在議會中的權力基礎 at the expense of protecting his power base in Parliament.
我必須告訴你，我是不會重蹈覆轍的 I must tell you, that is a mistake I do not intend to repeat.
我的錯誤是接受了他的計劃，死抱著權利不放 My mistake was accommodating his plan to try and divide Mandela...
徒勞地試圖離間曼德拉和南非國民大會 from the ANC in a futile attempt to cling on to power.
我和曼德拉先生的討論讓我確信 My discussions with Mr Mandela have convinced me that the only way...
解決問題的唯一途徑就是趁一切都還未失掉之前 of doing that now is to give some of it away and negotiate.
放棄一些東西，展開談判 Before it's taken from us.
你耽擱的時間夠久了，博士 you've been detained long enough, Doctor.
先生們，我們能開始了嗎? Gentlemen, shall we?.
幫我們結束種族隔離 Help us end Apartheid now!
我不相信我們把他當做是改革的救星 I doubt we're looking at the Messiah of change.
德·克里克一生都在為種族隔離作辯護 De Klerk is a life long apologist for apartheid.
大概正因如此，他的黨派才會推選他 Presumably that's why his party chose him.
明天出席會議的名單里·我新加了一個人進去 Names for the next meeting. I've added a new one.
-有點把事情搞混了 一威廉，德·克里克? - Mix things up a bit. - Willem De Klerk?.
-是的，是總統的兄弟 -你真是先知先覺啊 - yes, the President's brother. - How prescient of you.
我希望他的耳朵長茬他兄弟的頭上 I'm hoping he's got his brother's ear.
他跟FW 不一樣，他公開指責種族隔離 Unlike F.W., he's on record condemning apartheid.
是他兄弟禁止他出席怎么辦?和愛斯特海澤一樣? What if his brother vetoes his attendance?. Along with Esterhuyse?.
愛斯特海澤現在的立場很堅定，沒什么能讓他離開 Esterhuyse is committed now. Nothing will keep him away.
除非吊銷他的護照 Unless his passport is revoked.
這里是愛斯特海澤的家·我們現在不在家 This is the Esterhuyse residence. We're not home right now.
如果你留下口訊·我們會打給你的 If you leave a message. We'll call you back.
你確定也不在大學里嗎? And you're sure that he's nowhere in the University?.
我已經給他家里打過電話了 I've tried him at home.
塔布，托尼·阿齊茲·很高興再見到你們 Thabo. Tony. Aziz. Good to see you again.
-其他人都還沒到嗎?-他們快到了·快到了 - The others aren't here yet?. - They will be. They will be.
如果他聯系你，或是你看見他 If he contacts you, or if you see him...
告訴他盡快給邁克，楊回電話 tell him to call Michael young as soon as possible.
我在電話邊等著 I'll be waiting by the phone.
告訴他我現在不能見他 Tell him that I can't see him now.
總統今天-整天都不能見你，博士 The President will be unable to see you today after all, Doctor.
他的日程登記秘書會跟你聯系的，先生 His diary secretary will be in touch, sir.
高速公路發生了血腥的連環車禍·在那里被迫停了幾個小時 Bloody highway pile-up. Stuck there for hours.
先生們 Gentlemen.
-我是邁克，楊，德·克里克先生 -你好嗎? - Michael young, Mr De Klerk. - How do you do?.
威廉，德，克里克，這是記者和政治評論員，塔布、貝提 Willem De Klerk, Journalist and political commentator, Thabo Mbeki.
-很高興見到你 -榮幸，先生 - Pleased to meet you. - Pleasure, sir.
我們進去吧? Shall we?.
你讓我們很擔心 you had us worried there.
你沒有早點幫我處理掉 you don't get rid of me that easily.
我親愛的朋友 同志 My dear friend and comrade.
終于收到你的信·我心中的石頭終于落地了 I cannot tell you my relief to hear from you at last.
你要是之前就跟我聯系的話，我就可以提醒你 Had you contacted me before, I could have warned you...
不單單是你們在和政府談話 that yours are not the only talks taking place with the Government.
是否釋放你也列在了討論議程的前面 your release is high on the agenda of those discussions.
鑒于新人總統的強硬態度 Given the hard line position of the new State President...
會談的前景目前必然是懸而未決的 the future of those talks must now hang in the balance.
但說無妨，威利等少數人的權利，就等于白人的權利 Call it what it is, Willie. Minority rights, equals white rights.
換句話說，他們要我們保證 In other words, you want us to ensure...
白人所享有的權利永久不變 the privileges whites enjoy are perpetuated.
團體權利的這個設想旨在團體之間不存在誰統治誰 The idea of group rights is that no group has dominance over another.
無論是白人還是黑人 White or black.
你所講的無種族區分的信條是否就是這些呢? Isn't that what your non-racial credo is all about?.
但是沒有那個做保證 But without assurance of that...
總統絕不會到談判桌上來的 the President will never come to the negotiating table.
不是這樣瑪，威廉? Is that not so, Willem?.
這不該我來說，教授 That's not for me to say, Professor.
德·克里克兄弟不會放棄太多東西的 De Klerk's brother doesn't give much away.
他頻繁地表明他不是自己兄弟的守護人 He frequently points out he's not his brother's keeper.
他僅僅是到桌上來插-腳，替他爭取時間罷了 He barely got his feet under the table, give him time.
時間才是敵人 Time is the enemy.
他耽誤一天，就又離血腥的叛亂進了一步 Every day he procrastinates, is one closer to bloody insurrection.
博納德對他是什么看法? What is Barnard's sense of him?.
博納德不像以前那樣那么容易進入總統辦公室了 Barnard's access to the President's office is not what it used to be.
我們現在必須依靠他的兄弟了 We must rely on his brother for that now.
我想他們會討論你對今天的印象如何，威廉? I thought we might discuss your impressions of the day, Willem?.
我房間有些超棒的白蘭地 I've some excellent brandy in my room.
或許，另找個晚上吧 Another night, perhaps.
我親愛的朋友 My dear friend...
我們的斗爭已經到了風口浪尖的時刻了·我們的國家也是 our struggle is now at a tipping point, as is our country.
我們必須試圖讓德·克里克和他的政府相信 We must try and convince De Klerk and his government...
白人并不畏懼我們 that the whites have nothing to fear from us.
支配著我們的不是報復，而是渴望和諧共處的心 It is not revenge that governs us, but reconciliation.
我們必須用盡一切可以使用的手段讓他明白 We must use every method open to us to make him understand...
他如果不立即行動起來的話，我們無法履行承諾 that unless he acts soon, we cannot deliver.
他還在等什么? What is he waiting for?.
等到他動起來，還得要多少個星期，多少個月啊? How many more weeks, how many more months until he acts?.
他在曼德拉問題上的立場又是什么? 難道他看不見把他關得越久 And where is he on Mandela?. Can he not see the longer he keeps him in prison...
他就要花越多的時間去控制暴徒統治嗎? the more time he is giving for mob rule to take hold?.
完全正確 Exactly!
我沒有你要找的答案，貝提先生 I do not have the answers you're looking for, Mr Mbeki.
我兄弟從來都不相信我在政府政策上的意見 My brother is not in the habit of confiding in me about Government policy.
或者別的人他也不信，似乎是這樣 Or anyone else, it seems.
是的 yes.
是的，我非常明白·你真的確信嗎? yes, I understand well. Are you absolutely sure?.
我們不能那樣做 We can't put it like that.
沒錯，這是很重要，但也是在浪費時間 yes, it's important, but it's a waste of time.
抱歉·我剛沒找著 I apologise. I lost track of...
那我們現在回到昨天的重要事項上來，好嗎? Shall we start by returning to the outstanding items from yesterday?.
我想·你們會否介意，道歉? I wonder... Do you mind, I'm sorry?.
我代表我兄弟闡明幾個議題 On behalf of my brother, I have some issues for clarification.
如果你們容許的話 If you will bear with me.
第一 One...
何時南非國民大會才有可能舉行對話 when would it be possible for the ANC to embark on talks...
商議如何開展同政府的正式談判? about how to progress formal negotiations with the Government?.
第二 Two.
你們舉行對話的前提條件是什么 What would your preconditions be to such talks...
還有第三·什么樣的議程你們才會接受? and, three... what agenda would be acceptable to you?.
你可以-告訴總統 you can... tell the President...
我方沒有任何先決條件 there will be no preconditions on our side....
我們讓他來決定會議的議程 and we leave it to him to determine the agenda.
至于時機 As for timing...
他什么時候準備好，我們就什么時候準備好 we are ready when he is.
那么你們在停火問題上的立場是什么? And your position on the cease fire of violence?.
談判開始 We would order that all violence be suspended...
我們可以下令停止一切暴力行動 while negotiations take place.
達成新憲法 When a new constitution has been agreed...
我們就會下令 we will give the instruction that the armed struggle...
取消武裝斗爭 is to be abandoned.
奧利弗 Oliver.
塔布 Thabo.
你能幫我念一下這個嗎，麻煩了? Would you read this for me, please?.
"盡管這些年來我們一直分離 " "Although we have been apart all these years..."
但在我的腦海里 It's as if I've been conducting a lifelong conversation...
似乎一生都在與你交談 with you in my head.
我現在所祈禱的，就是你能康復起來，如系天意 All I pray now, is that you recover so, God willing...
我們就能面對面地繼續交談了 we can continue it face to face.
至于我的自由 As for my freedom...
都是次要的，直到你再次變得強壯起來 it is a secondary matter until you are strong again.
直到所有被拘禁的人都獲得了自由 And, until all those imprisoned have won theirs.
我一走是最后一個得到自由的人 I must be the last to gain his liberty.
他沒有說名字，更不用說答話了 He wouldn't give a name, much less take no for an answer.
我是愛斯特海澤 Esterhuyse.
我想通常人們是不是都愛拿天氣來說事兒? I suppose the weather's the usual crap?.
你打電話來就是要討論這個? Is that what you called to discuss?.
那邊兒是什么時候了? What time is it over there?.
-中午 -打開你的電視·你那邊的時間是下午兩點 - Noon. - Turn on your TV. 2 pm, your time.
現在，在我們等待歷史性演說來臨的時候 Now, as we wait for what's been billed as an historic address.
讓我們回顧一下過去幾個月發生的重大事件吧 Let's reflect on the momentous events of the past few months.
柏林墻倒塌，冷戰結束 The tearing down of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War.
但是，南非卻擁有了太多虛幻的希望 But, South Africa has had many false dawns.
太多的講演做出了太多的承諾·但真正兌現的寥寥無幾 So many speeches which have promised so much, yet delivered so little.
現在德，克里克總統由其內閣成員陪同 Here now is President De Klerk flanked by his cabinet.
當他步向講臺時，所有南非人民 As he makes his way to the podium, all of South Africa...
事實上全世界，都屏住了呼吸 and indeed the world, holds it's breath.
政府己決定立即無條件 My Government has taken the decision to immediately and unconditionally...
釋放尼爾森，曼德拉先生 release Mr Nelson Mandela.
我也已下令立即解除 I've also instructed that the prohibition...
對南非國民大會，泛非大會 of the African National Congress the Pan African Congress...
以及南非共產黨的禁令 and the South African Communist Party be immediately lifted.
談判的時刻已經來臨 The time has come to negotiate.
百萬南非人民的希望 The hopes of millions of South Africans...
都將匯聚在這一進程之中 will be centred on that process.
我們決不能畏縮·我們不怕失敗 We must not falter. We dare not fail.
謝謝你們 Thank you.
我們現在就去維克多維斯特監獄，曼德拉先生就在那里 We go now to Victor Verster Prison, where Mr Mandela....
那個被囚禁了近30年的人 the man who's been imprisoned for nearly three decades...
現年己72歲了，將首次 72 years old, will be appearing in public...
出現在大眾的面前，很快 for the first time, any moment now.
國際媒體進駐門外 International media perched.
群眾一片歡呼 The crowd getting excited.
他來了 That's him.
那就是曼德拉先生·尼爾森、曼德拉·一個自由的人 And there is Mister Mandela. Nelson Mandela. A free man.
踏出了邁進新南非的第一步 Taking his first steps into a new South Africa.
維尼，曼德拉夫人伴隨其左右向群眾揮手致意 Mrs Winnie Mandela next to him waving to the crowds.
尼爾森，曼德拉先生向群眾敬禮 And a salute from Mr Nelson Mandela.
他的妻子正在迎接今日在此等候多時的人們 His wife greeting the people who have been waiting for so long for this day.
全世界都等著看這個男人 This is the man that the world's been waiting to see.
這是他27年來首次出現在公眾面前 His first public appearance in 27 years.
這一天，對地而言，也是等候良久了 The day for which he too, has waited so long.
我們虧欠他的實在太多 We owe you so much more.
這迫使一個偉人讓自己變得渺小無形 It takes a big man to make himself invisible.
謝謝你 Thank you.
謝謝你·邁克·謝謝你 Thank you. Michael. Thank you.
請保重 Stay safe.
還有你 And you...
同志 comrade.